Curse

Studio Ghibli · Mar 27, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Howdy,

I haven't had any problems with my warrior in 12v12. In fact, rather than tinker with the new professions, I took my Prophecies warrior and drove her through the arena for most of my time.

What's on her bar?

Savage Slash
Glimmering Blade (I think it's called this, anyway)
Fear Me
Riposte
Deadily Riposte
Gladiator's Stance
Shield Stance
Healing Signet

I didn't bother with a res.. 'cause, well, it's 12v12.

And, with that, I was able to hold my own against every melee build. Against casters, I'm simply there to annoy them--damage them, interrupt them, dent their energy.

Normally, when I do this, melees start coming after me.

And then it's the +100 damage spike from riposte/deadly riposte/glad's. More often than not, people don't stop attacking.

Did I feel underpowered? Not at all.

Did I suffer from massive degen from time to time?

Yep.

I didn't see this as some horrible character flaw, though. Rather, it's.. simply part of the game--part of the strategy involved. If you're dealing with massive degen, find a way to deal with it.

In any case..

"Warriors were always underpowered - just try killing any anti-war build or prot monk with war and see.

And assassins = wars with no adrenal skills.
Why? Because they only have enough energy to do 1 combo before they're useless."

Chumsy said that. ;P

I agree on the assassins. Not because I played one (I avoided doing that the entire event), but rather because my guildies noticed that. Said with any amount of DP, an assassin becomes useless quickly 'cause of how much energy it takes to pull a combo.

Glass cannon.

I especially love assassins as a warrior 'cause I can block their attacks, thus ruining the chain. ;P

- edit -

What Ensign said.

Everything has a counter. Every counter has a counter. One simply has to be prepared. I don't really see any class as over/underpowered. Just people don't feel like taking a possible counter or are ignorant of those counters.

Albas · Mar 27, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumsy

More like it says wars are underpowered, if you ask me.
Have you ever seen a war out-damage or out-heal max IW + flurry with healing sig?
Is a war going to block or evade that IW?
Maybe he'll disenchant it after taking dmg for 3 seconds, or disenchant the enchantment stacked on top of it.

A warrior with enchant removal? Oh noes!

Seriously though, IW is fragile enough as it is. It is an elite skill designed to do massive damage in a very similar way to the warrior. The mesmer has very little armor anyways. Your point about the warrior needing to disenchant the mesmer just furthers the point that Guild Wars is a team game and is intended to be fought tactically in a balanced team. Why not have a mesmer on your team with shatter enchantment, or a monk to cast pacify, or a ranger to cripple it? The world does not revolve around warriors, and it is a DESIGNED GAMEPLAY MECHANIC that you are unable to fit a utility belt of skills for every situation on your skillbar.

Glob of Noobloplasm · Mar 27, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarjak

Don't worry it'll be all well after the preview event. The same thing happened last time. Since assassins tend to attack quite fast, spiteful spirit completely destroys them. And since everyone and their dog is testing the new professions, you are bound to run into some remorseless necromancers (like me) who stack on spiteful spirit and degen hexes on the assassins and laugh all the way to the priest of Balthazar.

Whats the matter? You cant win without exploiting the fact that people want to play the new professions? Oh and spiteful spirit, OMG! 37 shadow dmg, lets do the math... I have 480 health, so I have to attack you roughly... 13 times to kill myself, and thats if I have no skills or spells to protect myself at all (which I always do)

Way of the lotus > Unsuspecting attack > Black mantis thrust > Twisting fangs > Meobius strike > you running away like the typical caster getting owned.

after I finish off my chain on you I have all the energy in the world to protect myself (dont think the assassin has no way of doing that) and youre still about 130 health away from killing me.

I see this happen too much in PvP and it makes me laugh, the necro casts SS and just runs, this defys the point of even casting it in the first place, since the people chasing you arent activating the hex.

stamenflicker · Mar 27, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glob of Noobloplasm

I see this happen too much in PvP and it makes me laugh, the necro casts SS and just runs, this defys the point of even casting it in the first place, since the people chasing you arent activating the hex.

Well that used to be the case. Now with some of the new skills, hexes can get renewed if players are moving-- anyone remember the name of that new hex?

Also just because he SS'd your assassin doesn't mean he wont be throwing other things on you immediately after. When I SS in pvp, I echo Des. Enchantments, and always throw in a weakness or slower attack spell if I am getting tanked.

I've always found a fast casting cursing necro to be really dirty in combat, especially with soul barbs on.

Flick

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 27, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumsy

Have you ever seen a war out-damage or out-heal max IW + flurry with healing sig?

Have you ever heard of the skills 'Eviserate' and 'Executioner's Strike?'

Quote:

Oh and spiteful spirit, OMG! 37 shadow dmg, lets do the math... I have 480 health, so I have to attack you roughly... 13 times to kill myself

What a selfish way of looking at things. Are you aware that SS hurts those around you as well? Just because you *can* attack twelve or so times without dying, doesn't mean you should go crazy. This lemming-like attitude is a characteristic of the horrible warriors in RA.

Ken Dei · Mar 28, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

A fact people ignore:

Armor does very little to save a Warrior.

~It does not stop Degen.
~it does not stop Armor ignoring spells, which there are A LOT OF.
~I don't help against conditions, and the only one vs hexes got nerfed (judiciously so, but it's a fact.)

Armor also doesn't save you from enemy defensive skills, casters get tons of options to screw a Warrior, Warriors get very few to stop a Caster's attack. Don't say interrupts, not enough of them, and they take near perfect timing.

So you're degening, crippled, you can't do damage for one reason or another, and the caster is wailing on you from the edge of your aggro-bubble, and there's not a bloody thing you can do about it unless you're a Mo 2nd with hex/condition removal.

It's not a matter of skill of the player, or even what arena they're in, it's a matter of options, Caster primes have them, Warriors do not.

That's why I'll be keeping my W/Mo for PvE tanking, for PvP I'm going Assassin for teleports which negate the major problem of reaching your target in the first place.

Sorry, but W are underpowered NOW (Not so much before, but they are now)
It'll just take time for people to realize it.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 28, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumsy

Warriors were always underpowered - just try killing any anti-war build or prot monk with war and see.

And assassins = wars with no adrenal skills.
Why? Because they only have enough energy to do 1 combo before they're useless.

Warriors underpowered? You deffinatly don't know how to play a warrior. Warrior do the most DPS in the game. You talk about being a warrior and fighting an anti-warrior build and loosing... umm... duh!
Thats why you have the rest of your team. If you take out the ele's wards or blinds and the trapper then the warrior is back! You just need to learn how to play the toon.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, but I could't help but to laugh at your comment.

Esprit · Mar 28, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Last night, I and another handful of warriors rolled through the Luxon team. 2 or 3 warriors on one person will kill them in seconds.

Kool Pajamas · Mar 28, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Assassins were fragile because people only had a few skills to choose from. At the end of the event, half of my assassin skills on my bar were ones I unlocked. I rarely ran out of energy after a combo. The only thing I had to wait for is some of the skills to recharge. Not the energy. When I'm in trouble just dash away. Of course there will be/are builds that own assassins, but thats the same for any class.

Once people have access to all the skills they wont be dieing so easy.

Weezer_Blue · Mar 28, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by stamenflicker

Sugggestions?

Stop pretending your warrior sucks because you apparently think he should be able to kill everyone one on one and team play isn't a factor? Warrior's still have some of the best offense in the game, and although it isn't hard to counter, assassins are much easier to render completely useless. Ritualists, on the other hand, can be countered with interupts of all sorts because the majority of their spells are at least one second in length, and spirits can be killed in any number of ways.

chumsy · Mar 28, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mage Henchnem

Warriors underpowered? You deffinatly don't know how to play a warrior. Warrior do the most DPS in the game. You talk about being a warrior and fighting an anti-warrior build and loosing... umm... duh!
Thats why you have the rest of your team. If you take out the ele's wards or blinds and the trapper then the warrior is back! You just need to learn how to play the toon.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, but I could't help but to laugh at your comment.

Actually it doesn't matter if you choose to fight an anti-war build or not, the anti-war player will definately still be targeting you , and shuting you down all the same.

You do indeed have other players, but when your team is down one player - you're at a disadvantage.

so keep laughing - "duh" or not...

Hella Good · Mar 28, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

It's a strange thread this. It's like saying "Well, since this and this counters what I was doing, therefore my char is underpowered." And it doesn't quite work that way... I have played a warrior and I know that it isn't easy when the enemy team has a Warrior's Bane of some sorts but... does that mean war is underpowered? Hell no... It's like monks saying they are underpowered because E-denial or Diversion/Shutdown Mesmers can toy with them like Britney Spears toys with a lollypop. I mean really...

The fact that a full blown Warrior's Bane Mesmer was virtually incapable of killing a warrior before they buffed Ineptitude and now added Images of Remorse and Cume Pain was underpowering... There is a balance of things right now. Hack and slash doesn't work anymore... for one, you will have to start looking at the top left side of your screen and paying attention to what hexes are being used on you. If you expect to mindlessly attack and still win like you used to, then I hate to break it to you, but it ain't happening. If I- noob warrior as I am- can stop attacking when I see hexes like Inepti or Spites on me, then surely, anyone can.

Problem is: warriors can't deal with the fact that they might have to think about stuff that is being used to counter them. Most wars just have to do the hack'n'slash, press keys in sequence thing. That's the bottom line.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 28, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Problem is: warriors can't deal with the fact that they might have to think about stuff that is being used to counter them. Most wars just have to do the hack'n'slash, press keys in sequence thing. That's the bottom line.

Hate to say it, but it is true.

Warrior are fully capable of being effective (if not THE most effective) blitz machine in 12vs12. Mobility, Armor, Damage output, Buff, Debuff, Interrupt, Knockdown... what more can you ask for? No, 8 slots is the limit.

Although they are capable, they are the one who need to adopt the most into 12vs12.

A mesemer can bring the same domination build into any area of PvP and work like anywhere. A warrior simply can not do that, while that is also one of the greatest strength for a warrior; adopt and win.

For example, mesemer can bring conjur phatasm and put -5 degen on anything. A warrior can not bring sever artery to fight skeletons, but they can change to hammer and do more damage than ever (skeleton are weaker to blunt dmg). This principle apply to practically every situation for both PvP and PvE.

Though I would like to argue that there are still alot of warriors that is creative, this thread certainly won't be one of those that support my arguement.

Thurston Killgore · Mar 28, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siliconwafer

Warriors are certainly not overpowered in PvP. They do damage, that's all they're required to do, and they do that extremely well. To generalise broadly, the other classes are there to see that the warrior does their job. Which means keeping them clean, and making sure that protections only present minimal problems.

But firstly,

Yes, there is a problem when you base an argument around one arena that is by its nature unequal and does not represent the whole of PvP. You are right when you say that a warrior can be shut down or compromised easily through conditions, hexes and raw damage on occasion. What you are failing to see is that 90% of the time, in all other forms of PvP, where you have the chance to organise a group, the battle revolves around who can keep the warriors clean.
This is because a warrior skillbar that is optimised to deal damage is scarier than everything else-including assassins. It's a fact that a warrior will deal more damage than any other class, when kept clean. Which is why you bring hex removal, condition removal, enchant removal, healing on your other character slots.

In random arena you have 8 slots. Not much can be done with 8 slots, compared to say, 64. As you said, if you counter those seven situations with a skill and bring a res, you're not going to do much attacking. So, in a 4v4 or 8v8 situation where you have control over a team's worth of skills, you can bring enough to ensure that a warrior can just do the damage required to kill people-which is what the warrior class boils down to.

You miss the fact that warriors aren't supposed to remove conditions and hexes from themselves (if they do, they have to spec in their secondary, which is obviously bad because you're detracting from your primary objective)-and the argument that "they should be because I keep getting owned in random arena because I can't do everything" is silly, because if one could do damage, remove hexes and conditions and heal themselves, it would imbalance the rest of the game. They're specialised characters, and should be treated as such.
Self-sufficiency (which is what I presume you want) is anathema to organised PvP (except perhaps on flaggers, but even then a flag build must be made with consideration to the rest of the team)-which is why I can't stress that criticising a class on its performance in random arenas is silly.

Random Arenas are not meant to be taken seriously, and trying to prove something is underpowered in the context of a 1v1 situation (which is what random arena boils down to, as you have no control over your teammates' skills) is again, silly.

thank you for summing up what I was saying , lol..and I do play warrior(referring to Clumsy)